THE Cambridge Connection - Episode 65

It is an honor and a privilege to welcome my special guests, Kim Lee and Christina Rivera from Miravista, and this obviously is a show that we’re paying some tribute to, a friend Gordon Corsetti, who I had on our show on episode 33, who had a website called Mentally Agile Helping People That Struggled Mentally, which he did, and on the beginning of December committed suicide. And Kim and Christina, thank you for joining the show, doing a tribute at the same time as thinking this is a good opportunity during the holidays to help with a story close to home, do a little tribute, but also give information for people that might be depressed or not dealing well with life, or the holidays, or debt, or whatever that would be. So thank you for joining me on this show, which is kind of difficult. So I appreciate you guys coming on. Thank you for having us.

We’re, Miravista, happy to be here. Yeah, so Kim, you’re the Chief of Creative Strategy and Development at Miravista, and Christina, you are the Director of Outpatient Services for Substance Usage, correct? Yes. All right, why don’t you guys one at a time tell our audience and our listeners about what it is, even about your career, what you do, and how you got to Miravista and how you’re helping others? Sure.

I can, I’m happy to start us off. Gordon, this is Kim Lee, and I am relatively new here at Miravista Behavioral Health Center. I’ve been with this incredible organization for just about five months now. Most of my adult life has been spent in the caring force, if you will, so working with organizations dedicated to making lifelong differences in the lives of individuals who may be challenged by a variety of situations or circumstances, whether that’s substance use or mental health, an intellectual disability, autism spectrum, domestic violence. So I’m very, very proud of my affiliation with Miravista Behavioral Health.

And we, too, are relatively new to the community. We were formerly Providence Behavioral Health, that name may resonate with more folks now than Miravista, but just about 20 months ago, Providence was about to close its doors, and Miravista, which has a sister hospital in Devens, Massachusetts, actually were asked by the state if we would be willing, interested in purchasing the hospital in order to keep its doors to help open for the Western Mass community. And thankfully, we did. And so today, we are operating inpatient psychiatric care for adolescents 13 to 17, as well as adults, and we also have a whole broad range continuum of services and programs, which many of which are under the oversight of Christina to tackle the issue of recovery and substance use diagnosis. That’s awesome.

And obviously, you were a guest at the early stages of the Cambridge Connection when you were working with the Mental Health Association, which Cambridge Credit Counseling, the sponsor of this show, is also partnered with to help those consumers deal with debt problems and debt stress. So thank you for coming back, and again, you were incredible at what you did there. I’m sure Miravista has really gained in the way of helping people by bringing you on board. So congratulations for that. Oh, thank you, Gordon.

It’s a great team here. Very honored to be a part of it. So Christina, tell us about you. Hi. Yes.

Well, I’m Christina Rivera. As you stated, I am the Director of Outpatient Services here at Miravista, specifically for substance use. I am an independently licensed clinical social worker, and I’ve been in the social work field now probably for, I don’t know, too long, over 10-ish years. And during that time, I’ve worked with children and families, some work with domestic violence, and about five, six years ago, I started to work specifically more with people struggling with substance use in the hospital setting and started to work for Miravista when they first opened in April of 2021. So I’ve been very excited to do that here at Miravista, but specifically when we talk about outpatient services, we have an intensive outpatient program that is for people with substance use.

That’s a Monday-Friday program from 930 to 1 here at our Holyoke site, which is a great service that we provide. We also provide counseling for substance use, and we, as Kim, I think, had mentioned, we have our psychiatric assistants here, and we also have our acute services for substance use, such as detox. We also have a step-down from detox, and we also have a methadone clinic. So we just offer a variety of services to the community that I’m just really excited and happy to be a part of. and be able to offer that to the community.

Remembering Gordon and mental illness as disease

And again, the work that you do is truly important, incredible to try to help people that are struggling. And so Gordon Corsetti, again, who is a friend of mine, the way that he and I met is I was a lacrosse official and he was one of the top lacrosse officials and actually an employee at USA Lacrosse and really led all of the education and training videos and just everything. He was the epitome of somebody that just wanted to help everybody else in any way that he could. And when he pivoted away from that, it’s funny on the show, he talks about one of the reasons that he wanted to do something else. He ended up working for a power company was because he didn’t have to answer emails.

So, you know, and then we kind of recognized, like, hey, we kind of get that because I answer emails, it seems like 24 hours a day. So when they wrote his obituary, they basically did what most people don’t do. And they said, you know, and I’m gonna paraphrase that, normally they would ask what happened and obituaries would be very vague. But in the spirit of Gordon, they admittingly said he lost his hellish lifelong battle with depression and died by suicide at the age of 34. And this disease for him had been going on forever.

And what’s incredible in my recollection of meeting him was his unbelievable open door on anything. Like I could call him as an official, and he’s in Georgia, I’m in Massachusetts. And I could call him after a game where it just didn’t go well for a mentoring moment, or even if I was asking to continue my professional career as an official, again, open. And when he did his website, Mentally Agile for mental agility, it was to spread what he learned and knows that the disease he has never really goes away. And he’s trying to use all of his insight and research to try to help other people.

So it’s pretty incredible individual. And this is where it gets, people, even celebrities like Twitch recently, Ellen DeGeneres’s DJ committed suicide. So people can connect through it, through celebrity, they can connect through it through family. But in reality, for the work that you do, as a person who knew him, I didn’t really see this coming, but his family, I think, knew that day could come and pretty open about it because it was a struggle for a long time. Yeah.

It is, Gordon, interesting when, to your point, when you have individuals who are so high profile as Twitch was, that raising the awareness or spreading the news about a suicide when it happens in that way really does give us all an opportunity to just stop and reflect and to have an important conversation, to really look at the individuals in our lives, the people we care for and about, and to just really ask a very simple question, which is, how are you? To let people know that I care about you, you’re important to me, and I can talk to you about whatever it is that you may be struggling with, and you can do that in a way that’s safe and private so that individuals will hopefully feel comfortable. And I read the obituary, Gordon, and what was important to me and what struck me was their word of the used disease. Gordon fought this disease bravely, courageously, and with everything he had for 20 years. And mental illness, mental health, substance use, it is a disease.

It’s a disease as much as hypertension or diabetes may be, and it can be treated. It can be treated with talk therapy. It can be treated with medication. But it was meaningful that they chose that word because it’s accurate. Mental health and physical health are not separate, disparate illnesses, if you will.

You have to look at mental health just as much as you look at your physical health. Yeah, and before, again, we’re running up against a heartbreak, but could you please share some, even your number to get help or even the national numbers for anyone listening to the show that might know somebody that’s struggling or might be struggling themselves? Of course, so 988 is the new nationally staffed suicide mental health hotline. So if there are individuals in the community who are listening to this who are struggling and need help now, it is 988. And for individuals who may want to have a conversation with MiraVista about our services and how we can help them with their mental health or substance use, that is 413-701-2600.

Debt stress tied to mental health struggles

Awesome, and before we take a break here, I want to tell you, one of the things that Gordon had said on the show is episode number 33 was he had incurred about 112,000 in debts from, on the mental side, he would be admittedly going out and eating a lot by himself, right? He enjoyed his time by himself eating out, but more importantly, a lot of that debt came from treatment and paying for treatments and being in programs. So on the financial side, there’s that cost so that people might not reach out for help because they’re concerned about the cost and they might not have it. There’s also the debt stress. We’ve talked about this, Kim.

If you’re already struggling and debt’s becoming a problem and now you’re trying to get help and you’re incurring more and more debt and not really knowing how to deal with it, that just creates a whole nother problem. So I’m glad you both have joined me on this show to just talk about this really sensitive but present issue that we are dealing with in the world and deals with financial sides is one thing, but as it deals with just the quality of life and being alive and trying to get help and knowing you need to get help. So we’re going to take a quick break and then we’ll go over, again, working through mental issues, debt stress, and things of that nature for people that might be struggling during this holiday season. We’ll be right back. This is Gordon Oliver with The Cambridge Connection.

A personal debt and recovery story

I finally got myself into a really good, mentally good spot that I hadn’t been in, but I also had for those 10, 15 years, constant debt. And then right before I got into line work, dealing with well over $100,000, right about $112,000 worth of credit card, medical debt, personal loans, car work stuff. That was just an absolute mess. And so the last year and a half has been good for my mental health. And then now that my mind was finally in a really good spot, how could I get my financial spot in a place to match?

I had been probably about 50% of my debts were straight up just paying credit cards for medical debt, be it hospitalizations or outpatient treatment protocols, or more often psychiatric care that was out of network almost always. So I would have that. And so it’s like, I’m in that mentality. I think I saw it on Beep, like one character is like $100,000 in debt and he just buys a $50,000 car because what’s another 50,000 if you’re already 100,000 in debt? So part of that was a little bit of willful denial of the situation and just being like, whatever.

And the other part of that was just trying to find a couple little moments where I’m like, okay, I can do something nice for myself, even though it’s gonna put me in a hole later. Welcome back everyone to The Cambridge Connection. I am your host, Gordon Oliver, missing my co-pilot, Tina Marie, but having a tremendous. discussion with Kim Lee and Christina Rivera from Miravista and again talked a little bit again in this tribute to Gordon Corsetti about mental health, suicide, all of the things that obviously are the worst possible case scenario and ends up where that people unfortunately fall prey or fall victim to such a disease. But there are resources and that’s we’re going to celebrate the second half of the show talking about resources that people can turn to if they’re struggling with mental health, with debt help, debt problems.

Cambridge Credit Counseling services overview

Every year after the holidays people wake up in late January, early February and realize how much they spend and the economy is not doing great. There’s record credit card applications for new lines of credit being submitted. There’s record amounts of debt on credit card debt and 60% or more of people are living paycheck to paycheck. org with questions or if you need assistance. And you know this is basically Cambridge Credit Counseling handles everything that relates to having debt problems whether it be credit card, unsecured loans, medical bills, mortgage issues, foreclosure intervention.

They have a whole HUD team and housing specialists that help people if renters are falling behind on rent as a result of COVID. So if you are struggling with debts in any way 1-800-CAMBRIDGE is there. Now let’s go to the mental side of things because Kim we’ve talked about debt stress and how that’s just an additional layer to when someone’s already struggling. So it’s the holiday times and while we hear all the Christmas music and all the lights and all the wonderful stuff on the surface, we also know that many people during this time of year struggle. They do Gordon certainly and I’m you know going to defer to to my colleague you know Christina certainly as you know the expert and among the you know the three of us for sure.

Recognizing warning signs and offering support

I you know I my only commentary or addition on this particular topic is you know we if COVID has taught us anything it is the importance of community and feeling a sense of connectedness. You know isolation, loneliness has actually loneliness has been recently defined as as a health crisis and when you don’t have those opportunities to feel in association with or or a part of a community those feelings of self-doubt or or of loneliness can really become quite prevalent and so before I turn it you know over to Christina I would just you know ask your listenership to consider who they have in their own lives, consider who they have in their neighborhood, make you know make a visit you know stop and say hello, go out of your way to you know bring a handmade you know dish of some kind to a neighbor who you know may be living alone you know just a simple random act of kindness could really go a very long way in helping somebody with with their mental health but with that thought I’m going to definitely defer to Christina. Yes I mean a lot of points that you have made and can have made are really spot-on. Depression and anxiety, the sense of loneliness, hopelessness, those are some of the signs when we talk you know we’re talking about kind of warning signs and what to look for in your in your loved ones or the people that you care about. Any change in behavior is important, maybe something that just doesn’t seem seems out of the ordinary for them and then of course as you spoke about in financial situations are so stressful and can feel it can feel so isolating right because we don’t oftentimes people don’t want to bother other people.

I think we you know can said like COVID times have really taught us that companionship and seeking community means so much to us but I think we still very much live in a society that we don’t like to bother or ask for favors or ask for support and switching that up is very important. So if you see a loved one or someone you know experiencing anything out of the norm talking to them about it asking them what’s going on is there anything that I can do to help or support you and sometimes it’s still you know you might ask a friend or you might ask somebody that everything’s fine or I just make some alone time I’m okay and then getting creative like Kim said you know is there is there a way that you can just offer help more specifically as opposed to just asking them if they need help right. I know that sometimes it’s hard you know like you can say something to your loved one it’s hard with you and the kids some days you want me to just grab the kids maybe I can grab them and bring them I don’t know to wherever for a little bit. So getting creative and how you’re asking or wanting to support being a little bit more direct not being scared to to ask. Oftentimes people get nervous I don’t want to ask I don’t want to offend anybody it’s okay to ask you know you’re not going to offend and you’re not going to make the situation worse by asking if anything you’re going to open up the ability for them to trust you and have the conversation.

Here’s the interesting common denominator when it comes to debt stress and mental health stress because we on the show we bring this up a lot where in employer benefits mental health has really gotten recognized now as a necessary confidential employee benefit that a person can turn to a mental health expert confidentially because there’s some shame in admitting that you have a problem. On the debt side it’s the same thing where an employee one in four employees struggle with debt problems statistically and it leads to productivity problems morale problems but yet they won’t turn to HR because they’re ashamed to talk about it and that’s one of the biggest concerns that I think we see. Now Gordon was visibly and everyone knew he was struggling he would go back into treatment so he had his journey but for the people that are just struggling haven’t really had that maybe walking around mentally ill or struggling it’s sometimes hard to reach out and it’s sometimes hard for friends and family to be seeing some behaviors I think that that are troubling but they don’t know what to do. And I think that you know what going back to and it you know going back to his obituary not to I hate to bring it up in this but I think as you mentioned he would he would appreciate it. He would.

It just goes to show you know how accepting his family and how open he was about it and there’s something really beautiful about that there’s also just to touch base sometimes we try and try and as families or loved ones there is nothing else that we could have done or or or maybe there wasn’t anything big that was very you know showing or telling and I just want to also you know validate that but I think that’s the biggest thing the difference in having that community and and not you know having and a lot of people don’t with either culturally we’re just not comfortable not able to talk about it was never brought up and around you know the family matters things like that so I think you bring up a really good point both the financial aspect and mental health and seeing how those are very you know have been in the past very taboo topics for people to speak about but also how important they are and I think just allowing people to know it’s okay you know even with substance use we talk about that a lot that also has it can be very stigmatizing and it’s not it’s just something you’re struggling with and people want to be able to help you and that’s what you know for our community that’s what we hope to give people as an opportunity to come here and share what they’re struggling with and hopefully find support. And it’s interesting too, you know, Gordon, when you were talking about, you know, financially, you know, people feeling overwhelmed and desperate in some situations, it’s important whether it be anxiety, depression that’s brought on, you know, because of a short-term situation or longer term, it’s important that people know they are just not alone. You know, they are not the only one who may be struggling financially. They are not the only person who may be challenged by depression. There are so many other individuals who share that challenge.

They just may not be sharing it with them. And one thing we like to say a lot here at MiraVista Behavioral Health Center and that is everybody has mental health. Everybody has mental health. It just may be different. It may be different from one person, you know, to another.

I know, Gordon, you and I have talked about this, but, you know, I’ve struggled with anxiety all of my life. You know, when I was a youngster a million years ago, I used to think that I was able to tell the future. I would say, well, there’s that feeling in my stomach. It must mean that there’s, you know, going to be an earthquake or it, you know, means I’m foreshadowing somebody, you know, until finally I had a conversation with my family and my mother, who was a high school guidance counselor, said, Kimmy, you’re not foreshadowing. You’re not telling, you know, you’re not forecasting the future.

It’s called anxiety and those are butterflies. And so, you know, we were able to have a conversation. You know, I was able to go through talk therapy and, you know, I’m a different person because of that, but I also am better now about understanding my triggers or, you know, understanding what is anxiety. You know, first and foremost, for many people who are challenged with their mental health is just understanding what it is, you know, and then understanding how to treat it because it can be treated. And there are so many resources in our community now, there’s many open and frank conversations about mental health that, you know, individuals should absolutely be reaching out in order to get the support and the services that they need.

Closing thanks and helpline resources

So I’m going to ask you before we are running out of time here, if you can periodically send me resources, I’m going to repost this show with resources like continuously just to raise and continue to put awareness out there because even in a tragic situation like all the people that knew Gordon and all the people that knew Twitch, they also have to deal with this and it’s not your average family member passing away situation. So this may be people that are struggling, they don’t even know it. So Kimberly and Christina, thank you so much for joining me on this difficult show. But for Gordon, for all people struggling out there, this dialogue needs to happen. And I want to thank you for joining me so that we could do so.

Thank you so much for having me. Thank you. Look, this information that we shared today is very important to raise awareness on all sides of mental health, whether it be debt problems, psychological problems, family problems. And if anybody is committed or considering committing suicide, there’s a hotline, which is 988 and it’s really even more concerning that we had to come up with a three digit number to make it even faster to call for help when you need it. But this was a very somber show.

Did this for his family because in Gordon’s name, we’re going to continue to work on the work that he did to try to help people that are struggling mentally like he did. And it was an honor today to, in his name, talk about these topics because we know so many people out there need this type of assistance. org. com and go under podcast to listen to any of our past episodes. And again, Gordon’s episode was number 33.

Please have a listen to that. And again, if you need help or assistance, 988, if you’re struggling mentally with suicidal thoughts or if you need help with debt problems, 1-800-CAMBRIDGE is the number to call to get assistance from a certified credit counselor. Merry Christmas. Happy holidays, everyone.